RSSJust make up your mind, man!
Aug 31
So, with all the talk from the Bush camp about flip-flopping, we should remind everyone about the biggest flip-flop of all. This is a flip-flop that has so far resulted in well over 10,000 deaths, cost the US taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars, and drastically increased the level of animosity towards the US around the world. That’s right, the topic is Nation building In Iraq.
dailykos.com put it well today, check it out at http://dailykos.com/story/2004/8/30/2013/69172
In summary Bush has said:
pre 9-11-2001: the US should not be in the business of nation building
post 9-11-2001: the US should be in the business of nation building in Iraq because they are a threat and Iraqis want their freedom.
lately: “Can we win?” the war on terror, Bush said, “I don’t think you can win it.
Also, one of the funniest (but also possibly the most sad and frightening) clips to watch from the Daily Show is when he has Gov. Bush debating President Bush. It’s only funny because Bush has changed his mind on everything, especially in Iraq. I just hope the American public is smart enough to not buy this crap on Kerry being a “flip-flopper” because Bush is much worse on that front (well, on every front, but that’s the currently hypocritical one.)
Sep 01, 2004 @ 17:11:24
I’m as disconcerted as you over Bush’s poor choice of words (well, actually, you seem glad that he appears to have flip-flopped, so I’m not sure).
Kerry’s flip-flopping is well-documented, too. Watch this 12-minute video on either realplayer, WMV, or quicktime:
rtsp://real.stream2you.com/RNC/RNC082304.rm
http://media1.stream2you.com/rnc/RNC082304.wmv
http://real.stream2you.com/rnc/RNC082304.mov
You detail Bush’s “flip-flop”, and then conclude that it’s worse than Kerry’s. I’m just wondering how you reached that conclusion.
Despite the fact that most polls are showing this race to be very tight, a statistical tie given the margin of error, a recent poll stated “When asked which candidate is more likely to change his mind, 47% said Kerry and 28% said Bush.” Like you, I’m optimistic that Americans aren’t stupid, but I think that’s why nearly twice as many of them think Kerry’s more likely to flip-flop than Bush than the other way around.
Sep 02, 2004 @ 06:56:49
Steve,
I’m judging the magnitude of the flip-flop by the number of humans who died as a result of the change of opinion. I’d be open to hearing any comparison to Kerry on this front.
And I really can’t put too much stock in the media numbers about people’s opinion on the matter. Bush has spent probably tens of millions of dollars trying to convince people of this. The sad truth is that this usually works, to some extent. There is unfortunately a large portion of the population that is very willing to be lead on issues that (both of) their respective parties choose. Look at all the money that’s been spent convincing people that Bush is an idiot. It’s worked pretty well as most of the population agrees that he’s not the coldest beer in the fridge. However, for everything bad I could say about the guy I’m sure he’s not actually an idiot. He’s no genius, but it does take a medium level of intelligence to at least survive in politics (he’s not doing well, but he’s at least surviving.)
And I will watch the videos if you watch the Daily Show clip (the Will Farrell one is also amusing even if you like Bush.)
Sep 03, 2004 @ 22:27:12
You said that “I’m judging the magnitude of the flip-flop by the number of humans who died as a result of the change of opinion.” I’d argue that the number of innocent Iraqis that died during the U.S.-led liberation of Iraq is fewer than the number of civilians that Saddam would have murdered had he been left in power for another year and a half. Saddam Hussein killed at least a MILLION people while he was the leader of Iraq. Do you truly think that if the U.S. hadn’t liberated Iraq 18 months ago, Saddam Hussein would have just stopped murdering people for fun? Surely you don’t believe that. Yes, Bush’s choice to go into Iraq cost Iraqi lives, but not going in would have cost more Iraqi lives.
I watched the Daily Show clip – all I can say is that 9/11 changed the world. When Bush was Governor of Texas, no one had heard of al-Qaida, terrorism was something that happened in Israel, and the U.S. could afford to be relatively isolationist. All of a sudden, four planes come out of nowhere and kill thousands of people on your own turf, then you get intelligence reports (ones that were believed on both sides of the aisle) saying that there are WMDs in Iraq… events like this change your mind.
FDR was against going into the Second World War in Europe, until Japan bombed Pearl Harbor – then, he changed his mind. Is he a dangerous flip-flopper too?